(Title: But even if it was, it wouldn’t matter to domestic American policies)
(Increase in violence with confiscating and elimination of gun ownership) OP, my response:
It has happened in the UK. Whether it will continue to happen in Australia or Canada, is up to those countries. The only thing that should matter to Americans is the American Constitution and internal politics. Those who look outwards, are either using Switzerland as a defense against the people who want to transform America based upon the British and Euro model, or looking for ways to convince the anti-US Constitution and pro Europeans of other things. Either way, international law is not American law, no matter how many people wanted to vote in the US elections because they think US law affects them overseas.
“This is what “gun control” means. As far as I’m aware, no one in the US (aside from a loony fringe) is suggesting the outright “banning” of all gun ownership.”
You don’t really understand what’s going on in the US at the moment. Nor what has gone on in the past. There are some parallels and similarities to other nations, but again, it’s not necessarily the same thing because even if people had the same political and religious beliefs, they are Australians and British/Scottish/Irish, not Americans.
The issue about knives still apply, but in a different fashion.
It is true that guns are still allowed in Australia and the UK. The difference is that the government won’t let them be used to defend oneself against crime or other types of violence, except if one is a duly authorized member of said government or part of the bodyguard detachment assigned to said government’s protection. In almost all cases where one could use firearms to defend life, the government takes that power away and invests that power in itself, whether this means prosecuting home owners or releasing criminals, doesn’t matter in the end.
When Americans talk about gun control, they’re really talking about a couple of ancillary issues the international world doesn’t pick up on. First of all, the reason why the Leftist alliance for human totalitarian utopia prefers the term gun control, is because they consider or at least claim guns as being evil totems where just touching one corrupts the soul in unsafe manners. This is also derived from the transnational Leftist alliance where gun control has been favored and put into law. Whether it actually outlaws guns or not, isn’t the issue. The fact that it eventually leads to the government monopoly on force and the conversion of citizens into subjects, not defenders of society or of themselves, is the primary issue America’s 2nd Amendment was installed against.
Japan actually has a more or less workable system against guns and swords. But that works for Japan because Japan is Japan (a police box containing an armed officer every mile or so). Australia is not the UK, nor is America either Australia or Japan. To confuse the politics between countries is sort of like why America thought Iraq would rebuild itself into a democracy on day 1 or at least day 95. But it didn’t, because people had their own domestic problems international critters didn’t seem to know much about.
Australia, or at least Sidney, has some pretty bad knife crimes. That nation or city tolerates it, because they would prefer to be assaulted with violence on a regular basis, so long as they aren’t killed by it. The American philosophy has always been, and still is to some degrees, the refusal to accept 24 hour violence. Instead, we accept the penalty of death for stupid actions and expect our fellow citizens to realize the folly of their actions, or we will, not the state or the feds, execute them in defense of our own civilization, community, society, family, etc.
In our bar fights, we don’t pull out guns and shoot people when we start losing. It’s primarily because if anyone was going to do that, they would do that in the beginning. And when everyone saw the gun, they would just run for it, and stop fighting for stupid chest thumping justifications. Flashing guns and what not, has actually deterred more bar room brawls which escalate into killings overseas than people might expect. Those that didn’t believe this, usually did something stupid when talking to a gang banger and got killed for it. In Sidney, where no one carries guns while walking to or from the bar, there’s fights, that escalate into beatings, that escalate into stabbings. In the UK, the perpetual aura of violence around urban cities is on a similar level, although their issue seems to be home invasions and family murders/rapes that are just opportunity crimes stacked on top of other issues. That which Australians and UK loyalists believe is safe and comfortable, isn’t exactly what the rest of the world thinks.
” Because you just don’t have the accuracy, the rate or number of rounds to do the “job”.”
You conveniently forgot Ft. Hood.
Again the international focus is not the American focus. We here in the States don’t really like living in slavery, whether that’s due to dependence on the government or on somebody else for protection. A degree of national protection via communal sacrifice is tolerated, but it’s not the preference. The US is big enough that even this baseline doctrine is challenged by urban policies.
The division in this country is between urban cities that are basically fiefdoms controlled by the Democrat politicians at the top, and “other places”. Urban cities have even more severe restrictions on guns than international countries have, yet produce the majority of US crime statistics. Such restrictions were witnessed when New Orleans police officers going house to house before Katrina started confiscating hand guns. NOPD then promptly disappeared and went awol, letting the robbers, rapists, and murderers start looting and breaking stuff. Now with a populace totally disarmed, except the ones that didn’t volunteer to hand over their only defense, New Orleans descended into a chaos that was wholly man made, yet instigated by a natural disaster. But American domestic policy makers never talked about banning cities, mayors, police, criminals, or natural disasters after that event wrecked havoc with people’s lives. Even though such things were the direct cause of the destruction. There was no political power in it, so to speak.
New Orleans isn’t particularly liberal or conservative. It’s a Democrat fiefdom in a Republican state, but it’s still a fiefdom because it is an urban center. The rest of the nation doesn’t particularly want to become like New Orleans, Oakland, Los Angeles, New York, or any other place controlled by 99% Democrats either. They may not realize exactly why they dislike it, but the form it takes is usually a response to the “gun control” deceptive speech and propaganda by the Left.
We don’t need Australian cities or Japanese cities or UK cities as examples for American laws banning civilians from defending themselves. We already know where we are going because our cities are already there. So it has never been the case of some delusion or slippery logic slope as international critics would like to see it as. Frankly, Americans don’t care what happens in other countries. Even the Democrats that say we should become like Australia and the UK, because they don’t have people shooting each other, only care about their domestic power inside the US, not outside it.
Unless the mass media decides to cover it, Americans don’t even realize the crime and killings going on in our inner black neighborhoods and white ghettoes. The fundamental problem is not gun control or banning guns, but has gone far beyond that little caricature of a propaganda phrase.
“Leaving aside the practicability/possiblity of “cultural change” (which I will discuss in a minute), is it not more appropriate to compare the US to another frontier Anglo-based society like Australia? ”
Only if you have a position that would benefit from said comparison. The reason people compare it is not because we are similar to Australia, but because they benefit from the comparison. Americans have been doing this with the EU for decades now. Domestically, unless you fought a civil war to kill your British masters to gain said freedom, it’s hard to make the comparison. It could easily be said that South Africa, Liberia, and Iraq/Afghanistan have more in common with US problems than modern Europe or Anglo Saxon speaking countries. Americans speak the same language, yet our beliefs and problems differ greatly from state to state, city to city, Alaska to Detroit. China and Japan had states warring against each other, even though the people they fought spoke the same language. Just because somebody speaks the same language and shares the same culture, doesn’t mean the differences diminish to nothing. If anything, the differences are magnified and distorted precisely because people speak the same language.
The fact that foreigners understand more about their own country than they do about the US, is obvious. What isn’t obvious is that most everyone expects the US to be ignorant of things outside the US, but never applies that perspective to their own cultural perspective. CNN and other American so called media, don’t do much of anything to educate Americans inside America about the things going on in America. That is why that actor told people to stop watching the news, and instead investigate using the internet and use something called critical thinking, not sitting in front of a box being told the gospel. It isn’t going to do much to educate foreigners about America if they watch CNN either. The same goes for Hollywood movies and other such cultural artifacts from the US.
The United States of America is progressing towards another civil war. If we don’t even understand why it is so or what is causing it, foreigners won’t have much of a better chance.
To end that line of thought and go back to another one I glossed over: knife violence, UK crime statistics, and anti Ft. Hood tactics.
One of the things that foreigners don’t hear much about, since Americans don’t hear about it much domestically either, is the incidents where mass murderers have tried to kill a lot of people with guns, but failed. There are a lot of reasons they failed, but primarily they failed because the citizens themselves, the so called victims, fought back and disabled or killed the would be mass murderer. This cultural and societal belief that one is the defender of oneself, one’s family, and one’s community, is not exactly strong in other places that rely on military and police for protection.
One might notice that these incidents didn’t involve people killing the gunman. It just resulted from a certain idea, that is usually associated with church goers, of a community and one’s duty to it. It would be hard to find courage to do something similar when one has invested the police and military forces with the firepower and the right to use it all the time.
These are the live shooting examples.
As foreigners are fully cognizant, whether you are living inside the US or outside it, you don’t get much say in US policies regardless of what you think “should be” the case. But if you did have full awareness of the problems and solutions, many Americans would still trust you, the foreigner, to make a rational decision about the Final Policy, than we would trust the people in our very own country that we have seen deliberately increase the number of victims to mass killings.
Ft. Hood= Gun Free zone, all guns confiscated to the armory with MP exceptions. Columbine=gun free zone. Virginia Tech=gun free zone. Churches=usually gun free zones, unless you’re in the Bible Belt, then you’re kind of screwed if you try to kill people there. Cities=not gun free zones, just gun free for people who aren’t criminals or part of the government elite class.
People outside and inside the US should really ask themselves why they don’t hear about mass killings that were stopped. Why do they only talk about and hear about the failures? Because the failures give the power brokers justifications to make more failures perhaps? If people wanted “solutions”, America has plenty of them. But they aren’t the ones people talk about vis a vis gun control. There’s a reason for that. And it’s one that benefits the dead not at all.
If and when the power brokers in our nation want to make it turn citizens into protected children, there is no “gun control” solution, unless the solution is to disarm the people of their only defense. Whether that only defense is their hands or their knives or a bat. We’re definitely talking about gun control and not ignoring it, but a lot of domestic American policies are worded in a sort of “war is deception” mode in order to deceive both domestic and foreign audiences. Things are not what they appear to be. But even if they were, many Americans would still not accept the role of victim sheep forced to survive based upon the random dictates of luck and some guy with an armed bodyguard telling them who is part of the protected class and who is not.
We’re not interested in whether knives are more dangerous and lethal than guns. If anything, we prefer guns because it requires less work and is more lethal, since a woman defending herself against rapists and mass murderers, better be as dangerous as she can be, without 10 years training in “knife fighting” to compensate. What is true with criminals using guns and knives, is 1000 times more effective and applicable when speaking of the broader civilian and citizen defense forces. A nation that has gotten its people to think of security as giving more power to the elite nobles, rather than doing things for themselves, has created a habit in its people that will not lead to anywhere safe or good. The US is not particularly interested in whether Japan or Australia can make such a philosophy work. What we are interested in is whether the people enforcing such philosophies and religious doctrine in our cities, is going to be able to enforce their views on the rest of us who don’t live in Democrat states or urban cities.
The TSA has stopped 0 terrorist attacks. The civilians on Flight 93 stopped the White House or the Capital (full of bodyguard protected Ivy League lawyers and politicians) from being burned to ash. Americans will always favor the latter over the former. Until non-Americans and anti-Constitutionalists win the civil war, at least. Until then, though, it applies.
Freedom is hard. It is not safe. And it definitely isn’t luxurious. People don’t climb mountains and train in martial arts because it is fun like eating chocolate is fun, but because it sharpens the senses and makes living worthwhile. America has always taken such beliefs to a certain extreme, beyond what other nations were willing to do. If the case ever ceases to be true, then you will have known one side or the other won over completely. But before then, expect nukes to explode a few times on this planet and a few millions to die. Australians would never rise up in armed rebellion against the local or state government, primarily because they lack the means. United States is slightly different. We’re much more similar to barbarian states and old historical dramas like Japan’s Sengoku period, than many people would expect from the vision of the US as exemplified in Hollywood (that of a gluttonous, gun violence filled, pathetically weak and decadent culture focused on no beliefs worth living for whatsoever). Some of the barbarian/decadence element is exemplified in our invasions of foreign nations, but most call that just bombing people from a safe place: cowardice essentially.